Sunday, February 26, 2012
Databases Only
I know to you this seems like a stupid question but I can get some microsoft
article that proves my point I feel our department is going to make a big
mistake.
We have an administrator (help desk supervisor) who wants to put an
application on our SQL server. The application is TRACK-IT, used for
helpdesk support and auditing. I realize this application will probably run
just fine on the Microsoft SQL 2000 server, but I was hoping I could leave i
t
just for databases. But, the person at the helpdesk who will run the app is
pushing to have installed right on the SQL server instead of our print/file
server. Is there any documentation out there that will support my position
that a SQL Server should be used for Databases only! This is kind of urgent
,
I need something fast if I am going to prevent them from doing this
I know this might
--
Ed BoyerReasons not to:
-Could pose a security risk
-Could decrease performance
-Could negatively affect availability
Reasons to:
-None
HTH
Jerry
"EddieB" <EddieB@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C4BE62A0-6D9D-461D-96B6-2B163254C4E6@.microsoft.com...
> Hello,
> I know to you this seems like a stupid question but I can get some
> microsoft
> article that proves my point I feel our department is going to make a big
> mistake.
> We have an administrator (help desk supervisor) who wants to put an
> application on our SQL server. The application is TRACK-IT, used for
> helpdesk support and auditing. I realize this application will probably
> run
> just fine on the Microsoft SQL 2000 server, but I was hoping I could leave
> it
> just for databases. But, the person at the helpdesk who will run the app
> is
> pushing to have installed right on the SQL server instead of our
> print/file
> server. Is there any documentation out there that will support my
> position
> that a SQL Server should be used for Databases only! This is kind of
> urgent,
> I need something fast if I am going to prevent them from doing this
> I know this might
> --
> Ed Boyer|||Is there a microsoft article that I can use to support this. I agree of
course, but apparently my opinion means nothing. She does not want to
listen. Which is too bad
--
Ed Boyer
"Jerry Spivey" wrote:
> Reasons not to:
> -Could pose a security risk
> -Could decrease performance
> -Could negatively affect availability
> Reasons to:
> -None
> HTH
> Jerry
> "EddieB" <EddieB@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C4BE62A0-6D9D-461D-96B6-2B163254C4E6@.microsoft.com...
>
>|||Ed,
There are references to this in different white papers dealing with
performance, security and availability. I've read it but off the top of my
head I don't remember what page they were on and in what papers. What I
would do just to cover yourself is to document the reasons with examples of
why this is not your recommendation and email her and cc management and
yourself so if and when things do go sour you'll have some documentation to
fall back on.
HTH
Jerry
"EddieB" <EddieB@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BBF845D1-FC64-4DEC-82A5-E45E5AF70927@.microsoft.com...[vbcol=seagreen]
> Is there a microsoft article that I can use to support this. I agree of
> course, but apparently my opinion means nothing. She does not want to
> listen. Which is too bad
> --
> Ed Boyer
>
> "Jerry Spivey" wrote:
>|||Does this application use SQL for backend, or has its own, if its own is it
proprietary or another 3rd party db solution.
Will it install "middleware" or some sore of service to respond to clients
Does the SLA for this application allow for it to be down for SQL
maintenence
Does the SLA for you sql server allow it to go down due to this other
application
How does this other app access your system i.e is it a service running
under local SYSTEM account
How secure is this new app
on...and...on...and...on......
#4 @.
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techin...
er.mspx
Secure Operation:Surface and feature reduction @.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pr...n/sp3sec04.mspx
"EddieB" <EddieB@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C4BE62A0-6D9D-461D-96B6-2B163254C4E6@.microsoft.com...
> Hello,
> I know to you this seems like a stupid question but I can get some
> microsoft
> article that proves my point I feel our department is going to make a big
> mistake.
> We have an administrator (help desk supervisor) who wants to put an
> application on our SQL server. The application is TRACK-IT, used for
> helpdesk support and auditing. I realize this application will probably
> run
> just fine on the Microsoft SQL 2000 server, but I was hoping I could leave
> it
> just for databases. But, the person at the helpdesk who will run the app
> is
> pushing to have installed right on the SQL server instead of our
> print/file
> server. Is there any documentation out there that will support my
> position
> that a SQL Server should be used for Databases only! This is kind of
> urgent,
> I need something fast if I am going to prevent them from doing this
> I know this might
> --
> Ed Boyer|||If the said database is an SQL Server database, it must be attached to an
SQL Server. If the said SQL Server is the onlly SQL Server in your office,
you have no choice if you wna to use that app, which requires the said
database.
An SQL Server can serve mone that one database. If the SQL Server computer
has enough power to server that extra database, technically, there is
nothing wrong. As for other possible/potecial problem, such as added
security concern due extra SQL Server login required by that app..., it is
totally up to your analysis on your situation.
If you really do not want to mix the said app's database with your very
mission critical SQL Server, then you need another SQL Server to server that
database, or if the said database has very low work load, you may consider
use MSDE (free version of SQL Server) to server the database.
"EddieB" <EddieB@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C4BE62A0-6D9D-461D-96B6-2B163254C4E6@.microsoft.com...
> Hello,
> I know to you this seems like a stupid question but I can get some
> microsoft
> article that proves my point I feel our department is going to make a big
> mistake.
> We have an administrator (help desk supervisor) who wants to put an
> application on our SQL server. The application is TRACK-IT, used for
> helpdesk support and auditing. I realize this application will probably
> run
> just fine on the Microsoft SQL 2000 server, but I was hoping I could leave
> it
> just for databases. But, the person at the helpdesk who will run the app
> is
> pushing to have installed right on the SQL server instead of our
> print/file
> server. Is there any documentation out there that will support my
> position
> that a SQL Server should be used for Databases only! This is kind of
> urgent,
> I need something fast if I am going to prevent them from doing this
> I know this might
> --
> Ed Boyer
databases on SAN will not reattach @ SQL server reboot
Hi Nick,
What error is recorded in the mssql errorlog upon attempting to startup the databases following a reboot? Is there anything recorded in the system/app even logs?
|||The error log states Cannot find E:\%PATH to SAN%|||Hi
That error may due to SAN storage is not ready at start of Server booting.
Be sure that SAN storage is powered before start of Server.
Review /test SAN configuration.
Thanks
|||Lefthand Networks SANs are iSCSI, so you should check the start order of the services/drivers.
If SQL tries to start before the iSCSI service is running, you won't be able to access the disks.
Within Service Control Manager, you can add a dependency between SQL and iSCSI so that SQL won't start until iSCSI is up and running.
|||Nick,
We have seen this frequently on our SQL Server instances connected to our Lefthand SAN. In every instance of the problem, restarting the SQL Server instance/service after the boot had completed fixed the problem (rather than going through and manually attaching each database). As others have mentioned in replies, it is just a matter of the SAN Volumes not getting finished mounting before SQL Server tries to bring the databases online.
|||Have you found anyway to automate this? Generally @. server reboot the building is unnocupied. Do to the fact that this is connected to live traffic lights the server really cannot be restarted during normal work hours.
edit - the dependancies are already set. I do believe that it is starting the services in order but taking into effect drive spinup and initialization...i think the SQL service is beating it to the punch....anyway to make the SQL service start dead last?
|||No, I haven't tried to automate the restart of SQL Server after the failure.
If you're up to modifying registry settings, you could try to modify the service start order using ServiceGroupOrder settings to try and get SQL Server to start dead last. Here are some links that talk about it:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/115486
http://download.sysinternals.com/Files/WindowsInternals-Chapter4.pdf
Databases on different storage
I have SQL2000 cluster on Windows 2003 with shared storage on SAN.
Cluster operates with one database only.
I need to temporary attach second database to SQL server, but problem is
that I do not have enought free space on shared storage to place both
databases. It is possible to attach another database in cluster
environment from local one node drive ? No fail-over needed. Problem is
that SQL server in cluster see only shared drives. It should look like
one database in cluster environment and one in not.
Maybe with two instances or virtual servers ?
Thanx.
Short answer is no.
Longer explanation is that in a cluster, all SQL data files must be on a
cluster disk resource that the SQL server is dependant on. YOu cannot use
local storage in a SQL 2000 cluster implementation.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"zycha" <zycha@.NOT_FOR_SPAM.COM> wrote in message
news:OnDuY9v8EHA.2196@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I am newbie in SQL server and have one, maybe dumb question.
> I have SQL2000 cluster on Windows 2003 with shared storage on SAN.
> Cluster operates with one database only.
> I need to temporary attach second database to SQL server, but problem is
> that I do not have enought free space on shared storage to place both
> databases. It is possible to attach another database in cluster
> environment from local one node drive ? No fail-over needed. Problem is
> that SQL server in cluster see only shared drives. It should look like
> one database in cluster environment and one in not.
> Maybe with two instances or virtual servers ?
> Thanx.
|||Hello.
It may be possible to use a mount point. I've done this with two shared physical disk resources that were in the same resource group. That is: I created a folder in a formatted partition on physical disk 1 (let's call it "I:\NDF") and mounted a formatted partition from physical disk 2 on I:\NDF.
I was able to create SQL server data files on the mounted volume, even though the physical disk resource (2) was not in the SQL server resource dependancy list. Apparently SQL server doesn't know that the filesystem has a mount point, but why would it care?
Now, I'm not sure if it will work with a "local" disk, but you may try if you are feeling adventurous. Also, this was on Win2KAS, not 2.003K
Interestingly, and despite warnings against doing this (warnings which I did not read until after it had been operational in a production environment for months), the SQL server worked fine and even went through failovers without a hitch.
It will definitely not survive a failover if you use a local disk, however.
Anyway, I would not normally "suggest" doing this, because it is not supported, but it may be a viable option if you just need a few rows out of a table somewhere.
Goog Luck
jg|||Geoff N. Hiten wrote:
> Short answer is no.
> Longer explanation is that in a cluster, all SQL data files must be on a
> cluster disk resource that the SQL server is dependant on. YOu cannot use
> local storage in a SQL 2000 cluster implementation.
>
thanx
Databases not showing up in EM on sql 2000, but do in 2005.
manager. However, when you connect with SQL2005 client tools they show up.
Any ideas?Eric
Have you "Refresh" on database folder?
"Eric" <Eric@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0AE0271E-33B9-4225-B007-A8D023103627@.microsoft.com...
> We have a SQL 2000 server that started showing 'no items' in enterprise
> manager. However, when you connect with SQL2005 client tools they show up.
> Any ideas?
Databases not showing up in EM on sql 2000, but do in 2005.
manager. However, when you connect with SQL2005 client tools they show up.
Any ideas?
Eric
Have you "Refresh" on database folder?
"Eric" <Eric@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0AE0271E-33B9-4225-B007-A8D023103627@.microsoft.com...
> We have a SQL 2000 server that started showing 'no items' in enterprise
> manager. However, when you connect with SQL2005 client tools they show up.
> Any ideas?
Databases not showing up in EM on sql 2000, but do in 2005.
manager. However, when you connect with SQL2005 client tools they show up.
Any ideas?Eric
Have you "Refresh" on database folder?
"Eric" <Eric@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0AE0271E-33B9-4225-B007-A8D023103627@.microsoft.com...
> We have a SQL 2000 server that started showing 'no items' in enterprise
> manager. However, when you connect with SQL2005 client tools they show up.
> Any ideas?
Databases not displayed in Enterprise manager
I'm experiencing a weird problem, I have a sql server running with lots of d
ifferent database and corresponding user to each database. Now the problem i
s that when a given user connects through EM the database in in EM list "no
items" for all users except
one, and the sa. Now I have just reinstalled the server, thought it was a pr
oblem in the software, attached the databases and added the users all the sa
me way, no special settings except for the assign of access as dbo to their
own database.
Even creating a new database, and adding a new user results in the same stuf
f....
On my local development machine, doing the exact same thing dowsn't result i
n the mentioned behavoir.
WHY? (the desparate dba)Found that everytime a user who cannot acces databases connects this shows u
p in the server log:
SqlDumpExceptionHandler: Process 56 generated fatal exception c0000005 EXCEP
TION_ACCESS_VIOLATION. SQL Server is terminating this process..
****************************************
************************************
***
*
* BEGIN STACK DUMP:
* 04/16/04 22:38:12 spid 56
*
* Exception Address = 00402453 (RecBase::Resize(void) + 00000004 Line 0+00
000000)
* Exception Code = c0000005 EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION
* Access Violation occurred reading address 00000000
* Input Buffer 68 bytes -
* exec sp_MSdbuseraccess N'db', N'%'
*
*
* MODULE BASE END SIZE
* sqlservr 00400000 00B19FFF 0071a000
* ntdll 77F80000 77FFCFFF 0007d000
* KERNEL32 7C570000 7C627FFF 000b8000
* ADVAPI32 7C2D0000 7C331FFF 00062000
* RPCRT4 77D30000 77DA0FFF 00071000
* USER32 77E10000 77E74FFF 00065000
* GDI32 77F40000 77F7DFFF 0003e000
* OPENDS60 41060000 41065FFF 00006000
* MSVCRT 78000000 78044FFF 00045000
* UMS 41070000 4107CFFF 0000d000
* SQLSORT 42AE0000 42B6FFFF 00090000
* MSVCIRT 780A0000 780B1FFF 00012000
* sqlevn70 41080000 41086FFF 00007000
* NETAPI32 7B470000 7B4BEFFF 0004f000
* SECUR32 7C340000 7C34EFFF 0000f000
* NETRAP 7B4C0000 7B4C5FFF 00006000
* SAMLIB 7B4D0000 7B4DEFFF 0000f000
* WS2_32 7B4E0000 7B4F3FFF 00014000
* WS2HELP 7B500000 7B507FFF 00008000
* WLDAP32 7B510000 7B539FFF 0002a000
* DNSAPI 7B540000 7B563FFF 00024000
* WSOCK32 7B570000 7B577FFF 00008000
* wmi 7B760000 7B763FFF 00004000
* ole32 7B870000 7B95EFFF 000ef000
* XOLEHLP 7B9E0000 7B9E7FFF 00008000
* MSDTCPRX 7B9F0000 7BAA6FFF 000b7000
* MTXCLU 7BAB0000 7BABFFFF 00010000
* VERSION 7BAC0000 7BAC6FFF 00007000
* LZ32 7BAD0000 7BAD5FFF 00006000
* CLUSAPI 7BAE0000 7BAEFFFF 00010000
* RESUTILS 7BAF0000 7BAFCFFF 0000d000
* USERENV 7C0F0000 7C150FFF 00061000
* rnr20 7BB00000 7BB0BFFF 0000c000
* iphlpapi 7BB50000 7BB62FFF 00013000
* ICMP 7BB70000 7BB74FFF 00005000
* MPRAPI 7BB80000 7BB96FFF 00017000
* OLEAUT32 7BBA0000 7BC3AFFF 0009b000
* ACTIVEDS 7BC40000 7BC6EFFF 0002f000
* ADSLDPC 7BC70000 7BC92FFF 00023000
* RTUTILS 7BCA0000 7BCADFFF 0000e000
* SETUPAPI 7BCB0000 7BD3DFFF 0008e000
* RASAPI32 7BD40000 7BD72FFF 00033000
* RASMAN 7BD80000 7BD90FFF 00011000
* TAPI32 7BDA0000 7BDC1FFF 00022000
* COMCTL32 7BDD0000 7BE53FFF 00084000
* SHLWAPI 7BE60000 7BEC4FFF 00065000
* DHCPCSVC 7BED0000 7BEE8FFF 00019000
* winrnr 011F0000 011F7FFF 00008000
* rasadhlp 01200000 01204FFF 00005000
* SSNETLIB 019D0000 019E5FFF 00016000
* SSNMPN70 410D0000 410D5FFF 00006000
* security 01CD0000 01CD3FFF 00004000
* crypt32 7C740000 7C7C6FFF 00087000
* MSASN1 01CE0000 01CEFFFF 00010000
* msafd 02100000 0211DFFF 0001e000
* wshtcpip 02160000 02166FFF 00007000
* SSmsLPCn 021F0000 021F6FFF 00007000
* ntdsapi 02290000 022A0FFF 00011000
* SQLFTQRY 02810000 0282CFFF 0001d000
* CLBCATQ 02830000 028BFFFF 00090000
* sqloledb 028E0000 02952FFF 00073000
* MSDART 02960000 0297EFFF 0001f000
* comdlg32 02980000 029BDFFF 0003e000
* SHELL32 029C0000 02C07FFF 00248000
* MSDATL3 02C10000 02C24FFF 00015000
* oledb32 02FB0000 03015FFF 00066000
* OLEDB32R 03020000 0302FFFF 00010000
* msv1_0 03050000 03070FFF 00021000
* xpstar 410F0000 41133FFF 00044000
* SQLUNIRL 10000000 1002CFFF 0002d000
* WINSPOOL 03080000 0309DFFF 0001e000
* MPR 030A0000 030AFFFF 00010000
* SQLRESLD 42AC0000 42AC6FFF 00007000
* SQLSVC 030B0000 030C6FFF 00017000
* ODBC32 030D0000 03101FFF 00032000
* odbcbcp 03110000 03115FFF 00006000
* W95SCM 41140000 4114BFFF 0000c000
* NDDEAPI 03120000 03126FFF 00007000
* odbcint 03270000 03285FFF 00016000
* SQLSVC 03290000 03295FFF 00006000
* xpstar 032A0000 032ABFFF 0000c000
* srchadm 034E0000 0351DFFF 0003e000
* mssadmws 03520000 03534FFF 00015000
* msi 03820000 03A23FFF 00204000
* athprxy 03A40000 03A47FFF 00008000
* rsabase 7CA00000 7CA22FFF 00023000
* xpsqlbot 04160000 04165FFF 00006000
* DBGHELP 042B0000 042C2FFF 00013000
* msdbi 04AF0000 04B0BFFF 0001c000
* sqlimage 09D20000 09D2CFFF 0000d000
*
* Edi: 00000005:
* Esi: 1BB294EC: 00000000 00000025 00000000 00000000 00000003 00
00000B
* Eax: 00000000:
* Ebx: 1BDCFFFD: 20000000 021BD5E0 00000000 E01BDD20 011BDD1F 00
000000
* Ecx: 1BB294EC: 00000000 00000025 00000000 00000000 00000003 00
00000B
* Edx: 00000E00:
* Eip: 00402453: E183088A 04E9830E 589D840F 4949001E E9830C74 0F
077404
* Ebp: 03F2D2A0: 03F2D2B4 005EEA86 00A4C638 03F2D2B0 03F2E3DC 03
F2E79C
* SegCs: 0000001B:
* EFlags: 00010246: 003D0052 005C005C 00410047 0049004C 0045004C 00
000049
* Esp: 03F2D28C: 1BB294EC 00445CB5 00000000 00000002 1BDCF8D0 03
F2D2B4
* SegSs: 00000023:
****************************************
************************************
***